Democrat calls for optional fifth year of high school

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BY PATRICK GUINANE
pguinane@nwitimes.com
317.637.9078 | Thursday, September 04, 2008 | (32 comment(s))

INDIANAPOLIS | The Democratic candidate for Indiana governor wants to steer more students to college, even if it means they first spend an extra year in high school.

Jill Long Thompson, who is seeking to unseat Republican Gov. Mitch Daniels, unveiled an education platform Wednesday that would make a fifth year of high school a standard option for those who want more time to juggle after-school jobs or advanced placement courses. Students and their parents would settle on a high school plan in sixth grade.

"I believe it would increase the high school graduation rate," Long Thompson said.

Indiana currently has a 76.5 percent four-year high school graduation rate. Long Thompson said she would shoot for a 100 percent five-year graduation rate, but she didn't explain how she would erase the state's 12 percent dropout rate or get diplomas to the 1 percent of students who now earn special education certificates.

Another aspect of the Argos Democrat's education plan would create regional private foundations to raise money to expand the income-based eligibility for Indiana's 21st Century Scholars Program. The program currently provides about $2,500 a year in financial aid to college students whose families earn up to nearly double the federal poverty line, or $39,220 for a family of four.

Long Thompson didn't say how high the private dollars might raise the income threshold. But she insisted her plan is better than the GOP governor's push to lease the Hoosier Lottery and spend the proceeds on college scholarships.

"I think it's a good sound bite," Long Thompson said of Daniels' plan. "It sounds good, but it won't work."

Daniels says a lottery lease would generate at least $1 billion, which could support three decades of scholarships. His plan would provide $6,000 -- enough to cover two years tuition at Ivy Tech Community College -- to high school graduates from families earning less than $60,000 a year.

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fishnman wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:08 AM:

" A fifth year? who is going to pay for more kids in school for a fifth year? what about schools that are allready over crowded, who is going to pay for the space that would be needed to handle the higher population of students? Should we pay for an extra year because some kids are to lazy to finish in 4?
What a dumb idea! "

JACK wrote on Sep 5, 2008 7:00 AM:

" Here's a good soundbite, thompson and daniels BOTH step down! hows that for a good start. Not voting for either one, even if only one. Bad Leadership creates bad employees and trickles down. Leave our kids alone and stop trying to re create the wheel already. Your ideas WON"T work! "

not believing you wrote on Sep 4, 2008 11:13 PM:

" you, who types the same.
i doubt you are in education.
more likely you are just really politically motivated.
guess what.
only "rich" schools manage to get those advanced programs for their kids.
many schools dont have that. some barely have algebra and geometry books. "

R U KIDDING ME wrote on Sep 4, 2008 10:59 PM:

" NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON THE ARTICLE OR THE BLURB, BUUUUTTT, DID YOU KNOW THE STUDENTS ACROSS THE SEA GO TO SCHOOL 6 DAYS A WEEK, YES THEY GO TO SCHOOL IN SOUTH KOREA ON SATURDAYS--AND THEY DON'T START LATE, THEY START AS SOON AS THEY HAVE HAD BREAKFAST(5/6 A.M.), THEN THE SCHOOL STARTS AND ENDS AROUND 6 P.M.
THAT IS ONLY ONE COUNTRY...I WONDER..... "

ehhhh wrote on Sep 4, 2008 10:58 PM:

" I did not comment under any other name and don't tell me I am wrong.
If you are an educator you sure can't read. I already said I thought it was a bad plan.
I only said it was revisable so maybe it could become positive.
BTW only a few schools offer much in the way of college credit courses. And yes, I took calculus in HS myself. I also had to pay out of my pocket to take the tests for credit. Wayyyyy back then. Gee, I'm so dumb, but I started college just short of enough credits to be a junior!

What I found since I started working in the schools is that there are some really great teachers out there. There are some pretty good ones who are just a little worn thin, too. Then there is a number of LAZY ones who don't really care if they are offering anything to these kids at all, as long as they get a paycheck and summer off. Which one are YOU? "

ehhh is wrong wrote on Sep 4, 2008 9:55 PM:

" if ehh is an educator than he/she is part of the problem. ehh has no idea how education works, i also work in education and i would not say i know how it works. i know some but not everything. this plan is bad, will fail and there is nothing in there that could be salvagable, students can get a headstart on taking college courses while still in high school, they can also get a head start on high school fro mthe 8th grade to earn credit. they can also already take calculus as osmeone on here posted. please dont vote for long thompson "

to read the article wrote on Sep 4, 2008 9:51 PM:

" you must be the smae person as ehhh. we have read the article and maybe you've been out of high school for quite some time but they do offer calculus in high school. also you can now earn college cerdits while in your senior year. many colleges have partnered with high schools in order to offer this incentive to seniors who want a head start. so to you sir or mam, please don't belittle those of us who work in the education field. everything you talk about is something the high schools are already offering and hr student only has to do 4 years not 5. "

info wrote on Sep 4, 2008 9:37 PM:

" graduation rates leave out kids who have moved, kids who did not spend all 4 yrs in the same school, and kids who do not make requirements by the end of Senior year (in other words, kids who need summer school after grad ceremony), as well as actual drop outs.
this is what makes grad rates sound so low. its not really that kids are dropping out at a phenomenal rate, its just that they dont fit in the "perfect" 4 yr/1 school category.

if you give them more options and more opportunity to make up classes that they struggle in, they have more hope of finishing, and this is about your only real chance at keeping kids in school. change their attitude, change their future. "

Huh wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:56 PM:

" Ok, the article says kids are dropping out of school at various points, so how would adding more years to high school keep them in? If anything, there would be more drop outs due to the length of schooling. Not sure this will fly. "

to lightinu wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:15 PM:

" IQ= intelligence quotient
It is a ratio of a person’s Mental Age to their Chronological Age. Mathematically, it is calculated by taking your Mental Age divided by your Chronological Age, then multiply it times 100. The construct IQ is identified as being stable across a person's lifespan. You can increase your knowledge base and your skill base through education. Your IQ, however is relatively stable. "

ehhhh wrote on Sep 4, 2008 4:16 PM:

" is an educator who knows how schools work.
What would be different is that if you let 8th graders take HS courses, they could earn credits towards graduation. Very few school systems have that option, and typically only in the Math Department. You would not be adding a 14th year of school (including Kindergarten). You would just be opening up options for more serious students. Those students have actually lost the most since Inclusion.
YES, there are ALOT of kids who would take advantage of this. Don't you know kids are posturing for valedictorian as young as middle school? Haven't you noticed how many schools no longer announce class rank?
If you are in a failing school system, why don't you try giving your kids opportunities to succeed. You might be surprised at how many of them CAN and WILL. "

Read the Plan not the Article wrote on Sep 4, 2008 4:09 PM:

" People commenting seem to be likening an optional fifth year to a mandatory fifth year. I would invite everyone who comments to read the actual plan and not just the blurb in this article. I would have appreciated the opportunity to stay in high school and earn college credits (as outlined in the plan) for one more year. College freshmen courses are brutal, especially for someone coping with a new living environment after spending 18 years at home. Learning calculus in a high school classroom of 30 is a lot better than in a lecture hall with 130. High school sizes are increasing dramatically and classrooms are overflowing. If you think these courses are preparing kids for college you are grossly mistaken. Case in point, nobody types correctly on these posts. Grammar may be a distraction from the truth, but improper grammar fails to get one's point across. Of course, not sure how lightinu accesses a computer without education, or a job, all while living in harmony with nature and God.

Finally, one think that always gets me:
Loser = Not a winner
Looser = Better fitting pants "

Value Education wrote on Sep 4, 2008 3:54 PM:

" No amount of money or extra time will remedy the fact that we just don't value education as much as we should in Indiana. Much of that has to do with the fact that historically one escaped school as quickly as possible to enter the workforce and begin the path to seniority. Unions secured excellent pay so there wasn't a lot of incentive to continue your education. The world has changed but that mentality has not in Indiana, especially NW IN where union employment is so prevalent. "

The Democrats wrote on Sep 4, 2008 3:01 PM:

" Need all of the additional education they can get. "

ehhh is sleeping wrote on Sep 4, 2008 2:16 PM:

" If the 5th year is optional, what kid would want to do another year. Start high school in 8th grade. What would be done different than now. Why not start high school in 7th grade, this leaves 6 years for high school. Wait, I've got another idea, lets start high school in 6th grade, this leaves 7 years for high school. See where this is going. "

To Lost a vote wrote on Sep 4, 2008 12:29 PM:

" I agree. Thanks for making a point that should have been made many years ago. "

ehhhh wrote on Sep 4, 2008 11:51 AM:

" First, it's OPTIONAL to do a 5th yr. Some of you obviously missed that.
At any rate, I don't think it will work, either, for all the reasons already stated by several others.
HOWEVER
REFINE this idea.
Add the extra year onto the BEGINNING. Let kids begin HS optionally as 8th graders. I know my child did not belong in the 8th grade classes. Every year we consider skipping her a grade, but never do because we worry what it will do to her social development. I'm sure there are other children out there who can benefit from this.
If kids choose to enter HS early, they could look at past efforts to see if they are able (a good reason for middle school kids to actually do their work). Kids who are looking for AP courses would have all sorts of extra scheduling available to them. Kids who decide they are overwhelmed by the work could simply go back to the normal HS plan without repercussion.
It wouldn't mess up sports eligibility ages or moving to another school.

Gee, wasn't that easy? Get me Jill LT's address! "

Lost a vote wrote on Sep 4, 2008 10:58 AM:

" Guess I'm splitting my ticket. I don't like one more of her ideas. Although I'll get a lot flack, the world was a lot better place when women stayed home and raised their family and men had a good paying job to pay for it all. When I look at all these forceful women I just see bullies, not productive people, something gets lost along the way in women that try to compete with men, besides jobs. "

Sarjent wrote on Sep 4, 2008 10:34 AM:

" So you set a plan in 6th grade to go to high school for 5 years? So let's even play with this idea that some kid actually does this program. What happens when the family moves to another school out of state?

This is probably the nail that seals this canidates coffin shut on this election. "

Back on Topic wrote on Sep 4, 2008 10:13 AM:

" The flaws in this idea are numerous:
The increased cost, the physical capacity of the schools, rules governing athletic eligibility, the adverse affect to those who are college-bound, the disruption to the workforce availability, reduction to arm forces recruiting... and it does nothing to remedy the 7-10% who DROP OUT which contributes to the dismal graduation rate. Earth to Jill: the minute we place as much value on what goes on in the classroom as we do the gym or gridiron... that's the day we turn around the graduation rate. Gov't can't fix that!!! "

lightinu wrote on Sep 4, 2008 9:38 AM:

" Grammar means nothing it's a distarction from truth.I have a higher I.Q than most college grads .Soon there will be no jobs THE EMPIRE is falling.Then everyone will be a loser like me ,starving losers because there will be no more zoo keepers to feed yuo all. "

Shes gotta be kidding wrote on Sep 4, 2008 9:36 AM:

" I remember beign in high school and i couldn't wait to get out of there. what on earth leads her to believe kids today will willingly spend 5 years. this woman has lost her mind or her campaign staffers are really in the dark about this. i can just see the drop out rates go sky high if this were to go through. man i'm sure glad she's gonna lose, i mean after all she's lsot every race. every political position she's had has been handed to her. she couldn't win her way out of a paper bag. "

Hey lightinu wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:57 AM:

" You did not go to school did you? It shows in your post! Get an education & get a job looser! "

what wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:47 AM:

" Let me see, another year of high school, and how much will that run? Oh that's right lets raise taxes to pay for it. Hey how about another tax on gas? After all we all know we aren't paying enough already. Get a grip. I remember when I was in high school I couldn't wait to get out, none of us can and that won't change for today's kids. As far as the high cost of college well maybe the kids should try going to school while living at home it reduces the cost drastically. Let's teach our children to think. "

lightinu wrote on Sep 4, 2008 7:40 AM:

" Schools teach people to memorize not to think.You could go to school your whole life and you would never higher your I.Q. They want us to be dumb sheep.
STOP working STOP going to school STOP living against nature and god. "

Dee wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:57 AM:

" Thats why we need change, re selecting ALL the seats of Government including House/Senate/Congress/Supreme Court. The same idiotic/chaotic mentality will continue if change does not take place. "

Amanda wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:52 AM:

" first we have a sluggish economy already, the price of gas, the price of food, and you want to add another year to the Teachers/parents/students ticket? That is really not a solution either. Your just going to create students who already want out of school to REALLY DROP out! That raises the poll even higher and that won't change the problems at hand already, such as low graduation rate, low scores on state testing. which indicates teachers need to really try to find new ways to make it fun for students to learn thus keeping the interest. Most teachers are exceptional, but you have those that just get a paycheck and really don't care about the students advancing, and they should because it reflects on all of us involved. "

Joker wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:23 AM:

" Here's an idea. Let's work on getting kids parents jobs that pay better so the student doesn't have to work while going to high school and can focus on school work. "

Scott wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:08 AM:

" Is this Long Thompson serious? Why not teach them what they need to know in the original four years? Do they need more time to train the students to be good liberals? This is one more reason why we don't need anymore Democrats or liberal Republicans anywhere, in any position of power. "

Realist wrote on Sep 4, 2008 5:49 AM:

" To Jill and Mitch.
$2500 a year will hardly pay for books, supplies and fees no less help with tuition
$6,000 on the other hand may pay for room and board at IU, VU, or ND.
So until either of you come up with some meaningful stipends the cost of college will either be out of reach to may and basically bankrupt other.
It's hard to pay off $60,000 in student loans with a starting salary of $35,000 or so. "

Over Taxed wrote on Sep 4, 2008 5:38 AM:

" If the drop out rate is high now wait till another year is added.
I don't think we, the tax payers, want to afford it.
In fact most college bound students could cover the work required in 3 years. "

Oh another brilliant idea wrote on Sep 4, 2008 12:19 AM:

" Let's see you can't get the kids to go for four years so I know lets add a fifth year. Does this woman think before she speaks? "

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